Green Councillor Gerald Dawe, whose ward includes the now world-famous 'Rotherwas Ribbon', has described the proposal to concrete over this hugely significant find as “cultural vandalism of the highest order.”
“The first I knew about this decision was on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, yet I am the ward councillor. Decision-making is again going on behind closed doors. A clique in the Council appear to have known about this find for a long time. Why are they excluding the Herefordshire public yet again?”
“It is appalling that democratically elected councillors and the general public have been kept in the dark. Allowing only 200 people to view it for a few minutes this weekend is completely inadequate. We need council leaders to involve the whole council and local people in coming up with a more imaginative solution than burying Hereford's Stonehenge under concrete."
Cllr. Dawe has asked Council officials if English Heritage knew and when? How long has the importance of the site has been known, which councillors did know about it and when, and who has made the decision to concrete over the find and keep this decision secret from both public and elected representatives? He is still waiting for a reply.
“With such a significant find we must immediately pause the building of this road to allow further research and a national discussion about what can be done. The road will cost
￡
12.5 million yet as a county we earn ￡
170 million from tourism. The Stonehenge and Salisbury Tourism partnership say this could bring revenue to Hereford and they are right.(2) So why on earth would we pour concrete over it?”“This expensive road is for a small number of lorries to an industrial site when access could have been improved in cheaper and less damaging ways. The Council have gone against the government, the planning inspector and their own consultants to build a road which is completely unnecessary when other local industrial sites remain half empty.”(3)(4)
Campaigners are calling for road building to be paused allowing for full – and national - democratic debate on the best way of using the discovery for the whole country, and to the benefit of Herefordshire's economy. Cllr. Dawe said: “The economic benefit of the road needs urgently to be measured against the positive economic benefit of increased tourism.”
It is understood that 12 eminent archaeologists from English Heritage are visiting next week and that the Regional Director of English Heritage believes the Ribbon to be of great importance.(5)
Nigel Swift, Chair of the UK-wide group Heritage Action, said: “We are appalled. Our immediate reaction is that this isn't a matter for local politics but should be out in the open. The Ribbon would appear to be a prime candidate to be scheduled by English Heritage. Until there is a clear understanding about this the road must be halted.” (6)
Cllr. Dawe added “The Council's Good Environmental Management (GEM) strategy states '...sustainable development challenges especially pertinent to Herefordshire include protecting and enhancing it's outstanding landscape including sites and species of national, regional and local importance and minimising loss of biodiversity.' (7) This find is not only local, and regional, it is nationally and internationally significant. I urge our Conservative Council to follow their own policies and start conserving instead of destroying.' (8)
101 comments:
I run Bristol Roundhouse, an educationial archaeology resource and incidentally - grew up in Hereford. I was obviously very interested in the site at Rotherwas and have been trying to catch all the news available. I am extremely disturbed by the plans Hereford City has for these remains. This is a new class of ancient monument and deservers better than to be swept under the carpet - especially one carrying heavy goods vehicles. The comments published in the Hereford Times Thurs 5th July by Dr Keith Ray are to be expected of a towns planning office - but not of any archaeologist who has retained a genuine interest in the subject. The statement that "the landscape is littered with these remains" is simply untrue. He knows how rare a large area of well preserved prehistoric ritual landscape is.The City's excuse that their proposals will protect the site for future generations is as unimaginative as the name the site has been dubbed. An appalling cop out - but perhaps to be expected of a town that hasn't bothered changing it's museum display for forty years.
It gets worse. This from Dr Keith Ray, the Council's archaeologist; "The extra cost of this operation will be borne within the project costs, but will be offset by a reduced need for further archaeological investigation.
---------------------------------
Dr. Keith Ray MBE FSA MIFA"
http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/news_events2/RotherwasNews2.htm
Honestly, you couldn't make it up.
Last minute press releases, limited viewing before re-burial (only 200 allowed). The Rotherwas Ribbon is described as of world-wide importance, it has been reported as far afield as The Hindu Times! Is Herefordshire Council's road of such critical importance to the nation (having been turned down by national and local Government) that this monument should be sacrificed? Come in English Heritage and do your stuff – it fits all the scheduling criteria!
Ron Shoesmith FSA MIFA
I was just speaking to my father, who lives in France, about this significant find and he said in France what they would do is construct the road on stilts so that it could still go ahead and the find could be viewed and protected for the people to see.
When I first learned of this spectacular archaeological discovery in Herefordshire I was immediately overcome by interest. Both in what it may once have represented and most importantly, as it would seem at this stage in the proceedings, what on earth should one do when in the middle of a relatively large construction project an ancient find of this nature is uncovered? As luck would have it, Hereford City Council seems to have just the answer. You cover it back up again quick smart! I would definitely agree that the best possible care should be taken to preserve a site dating back several millennia; however, is that not why we have an English Heritage organisation? They should surely be the ones to advise on the best course of action, rather than anyone involved in politics, as their judgement will without doubt be clouded by pound signs. We are constantly being reminded of how we live in a time of political correctness, where it is wrong/criminal to say or do things that may cause offence to others. Well, I wonder what our ancient ancestors would think if they knew how a place that once belonged to them, that has been rediscovered after about four thousand years, is within a month or so, going to be covered in concrete and driven over by heavy vehicles? Not overly impressed I should imagine. One more small point, Cairo in Egypt has quite an intense traffic problem as anyone who has visited the city will be only too happy to agree. I hope that none of their transport officers look at Hereford for inspiration, bringing to a meeting one day “you know that ring road we were talking about the other day, I have an idea…”
Usual clarity of thought from the council...One wonders if there are more remains to be found in the vicinity which would then make burying part of them all the more short-sighted. This would also presumably limit even more possible alternative routes for the road. I would suggest that decisions such as these are a prime reason for having a council and by refusing to address them responsibly, they are failing in their duties.
This can't be allowed to happen. The Serpent is stirring passions far and wide. Can all this energy can be brought together to stop the madness. Can we have a good old-fashioned demo? A human chain to stop the bulldozers? We are so privileged to have this ancient and mysterious wonder on our doorstep let's fight to honour and preserve it.
If democratically elected councillors weren't informed about this discovery of international significance until it hit the news headlines, and they still plan to build a road over it...what have they already found of less-significance that they've ALREADY built the road over!?
Sadly Herefordshire Council still see road building as "progress" and they are set on a course that will see Hereford bypassed and ringed with warehouses.
This is the best opportunity to boost the Herefordshire economy that has presented itself in years. The economic potential of the Rotherwas Industrial Estate cannot possibly compete.
This is a one-off chance to set Herefordshire on a sustainable path. We cannot allow the council to squander it for future generations.
This unique monument is everyone’s heritage. Its outrageous that Herefordshire Council has sat on its discovery for weeks only to sneak out a press release informing the world that it is about be encased for ever in concrete under a spur road that central Government has deemed a waste of money. Its appalling that the fate of this world-class stone age survivor is in the hands of a few small minded local politicians listening to the bleatings of a couple of commercial interests that will cost us taxpayers millions for the next few decades. Particularly disgraceful is the behaviour of Dr. Keith Ray the county archaeologist for pandering to petty local politics rather than standing up for Herefordshire’s heritage. We can only hope that English Heritage at ministerial level will act to save this wonderful monument from the vandals, vested interests and the pathetic jelly fish of a Council we seem to have. I shall be emailing and writing accordingly.
Wendy Harvey reckons it is time for a "Good old- fashioned demo, a human chain to stop the bulldozers." Too right, Wendy, let's organise one!
Anyone who feels that they would like to be involved in a bit of peaceful people power, please email me on the address below including details about what you feel able to do (and your phone numbers, all of which will be kept confidential):
marty1111@btinternet.com
I will keep you informed when something is going to happen. Likewise, if anyone hears of works getting close to the snake, please phone me on 07809 150344 and I will let the others know.
We must not let this amazing find be buried under a road. It would ruin the cultural and historic landscape that the snake was built in. How will anyone be able to stand near the site and take it in with either a 40 ton lorry roaring past or a bridge on legs smothering it?
To many, the road to nowhere should never have been started and after this find, the arguments against it are even more urgent. No matter which way you feel about the road itself, we cannot let it spoil this most amazing find.
This is the big chance this County needs to get on the historic tourist route properly. With such a find and a sympathetic interpretation centre, the financial benefits will be be felt right through our communities.
The Council will tarmac over this monument if we stand by-it has a history of ignoring public opinion. We must show it that we are serious about our serpent and will use whatever peaceful means we have at our disposal to stop their disgraceful plans, including legal and protest actions.
If we want the snake to be treated properly, let's do it!
I had the fortune to visit the recently discovered Rotherwas Ribbon yesterday and was amazed by it. If the ribbon was part of a ritual complex involving the nearby cone shaped hill - and no archaeologist at this stage would dare to say it wasn't – then we have something of huge and special significance here. It seems clear that if that has been discovered previously it would be worthy of being scheduled, which would have meant that the proposed access road would have had to follow a different route. This incredible and significant find should surely be both properly protected and the subject of further archaeological investigation, unimpeded by the road construction. Given the worldwide importance of this find, the fact that the road construction has commenced is irrelevant. The cultural and tourism opportunity here for Herefordshire is huge - probably equal or greater than the potential economic benefits to Rotherwas, of the road. The worldwide damage to Herefordshire’s (and the Council’s) reputation if the road continues will be huge.
Just like to say that I'm appalled at the secrecy surrounding the discovery and investigation of what seems to be an extraordinary and unique part of our heritage. There has been no discussion and almost no one will to able ability of anyone to witness the find. I'd like to thnk my children and grand children will be able to see and experience it. That this will be permanently entombed in a concrete road which shaves a few minutes off a few lorry times to a small industrial estate is outrageous. For the county archaeologist Dr. Keith Ray to put petty local politics above what is everyone’s heritage is pathetic and unprofessional.
David Lovelace
Further up the roaod at the Hoarwithy Lane, "river terrace" gravels have been exposed. Described as Wye Terrace number 4. Now the Quaternary Geology expert I was with a while back, has identified these as being glacial deposits and that they are cryo turbated. These deposits may well be in the order of 100 k years old (4 ice ages ago) and help in the understanding of local glacial history. The nature of them was completely unexpected. Unfortunately I am not a Quaternary Geologist although I am a geologist. (I work for Herefordshire @ Worcestershire Earth Heritage Trust.) Site recording is on going to log the section and it has been photographed in detail, before it too is destroyed, by bridge building works.
RG
This site must be preserved. Our obsession with the car and new roads must be halted at this site. The road is uneccessary and even if it was, it could easily be diverted or even over, by flyover, this important heritage site. Please add my name to your support campaign.
Jon Cross
Michael Hainge, Director of Environment said this snake was not Stonehenge and wouldnt bring in tourist revenue to Herefordshire. Who is he to say? How does he know? It certainly wont if its covered with a road, that is true. But if this site were an archaeology, landscape park, with walking, cycling, riding, canoeing, from Hereford Cathedral City, with interpretation and research, it could do. What is needed is leaders who can see that the time for road building development has passed, we have moved on to other ways. Hereford must seize the chance this wonderful site has given us.
Becks
I am slightly bemused by the plan to 'preserve' the site beneath the road. How comforting to know that this extraordinary find is there but no one can see it until a more enlightened generation tears up the road! Could there be a more distressing example of the distorted priorities that underpin the mantra of 'economic development"?
A site of 4000 years and apparently of major international importance is to be 'preserved (buried) so that a road that most sensible people agree is in the wrong place to serve a need that can be adequately met elsewhere in the county can be finished 'on time'.
Bob Widdowson
Chair CPRE Herefordshire
I am very concerned: is anyone else wondering if Herefordshire Council has skillfully contrived to generate as much publicity as possible about this, knowing full well that English Heritage will agree that it should be encased under the road. With such huge publicity and if English Heritage do decide that the Ribbon should be concelaed, the Hereforshire Council have scored an excellent victory in spin and will have generated considerable, and highly visible "legitimacy" for the whole road project. It will also vindicate their more general reputation for "preserving" Herefordshire's cultural, artistic and enviornmental policies.
Mark my words, Britain's long term future depends on tourism alone (we no longer make anything) so we'd better start paying attention to the unexpected windfalls that extraordinary archaeological finds such as this might provide.
I am from Germany and cannot understand why British authorities want to destroy a site which shows the astronomical knowledge and building abilities of their ancestors.
We in Germany are very proud on the recent discovery of the Nebra skydisc and the sun observatory of Gosseck an. They both show the astronomical and technical knowledge of our ancestors. German authorities take this with gratitude and respect and do everything to preserve those findings and bring into peopels' minds the importance of these relicts.
In Germany we have come to a new ara with high respect for archaological remains and I dearly hope British will also save the memory of their ancestors.
Brigitte Granier M. A.
in ERlangen, Germany
So I
The Rotherwas ribbon must not be buried, it should be enjoyed by everyone. it will be a big tourist boost for the City. The Governement should step in immediately and save the day.
Whilst talking to a member of the road planning department today I was amased to hear that they thought the road was unnecessary,it will increase traffic by at least 18% around the holme lacy,mordiford area(itself in need of presavation),there would be a lowering of carbon emissions along the holme lacy road,but the carbon emission would increase in the area where the proposed houses will go,but this does not count yet as they are not there yet,though not actually willing to go on record the main beneficery would be Artic Circle Ltd and the estates owners,the rents and maintaince fees have already started to rise leading to at least one firm already moving out.He also stated that the county archiologist were aware of this site having a greater significance than normal,hence the longer period of time to explore,the increased significance was known as early as last christmas,he denighed it had been kept quite but admitted that it was to dangerous to talk about it,he needs his job.He also admitted the method of preservation was untested and it was not known if the site would survive the ordeal.Also mention other aspects to the site apart from the bit of ribbon uncovered so far,which could yield more information for the academics,if not buried.He asked not to be named for obvious reasons.
It seems that the larger the Conservative majority, the less they conserve. They seem hell bent on detroying just about everything that make Hereford the sort of place folk want to come to. Mr Mugabe, move over.
My name is William Smith from Ohio,(U.S.A.) I belong to a group called AAAPF (Ancient American Artifact Preservation Foundation). Our work is directed to America before Columbus. We have made new discoveries and possible uses of many of the mounds in Ohio which once numbered 1500, however due to many reasons we only have about 500 left. Four years ago it was found that the Newark, Ohio octagon mound was built to track the moon in its 18.6 year solar cycle. The Great Serpent Mound in Adams Co., Ohio consist of 3 coils in it's tail and 7 direction changes in its body as well as holding the moon in its mouth. It lays heading in a north west direction. Recent research of this site indicates it is a recording of an ancient journey to this site. The people spent 3 lunar months in a boat and 7 lunar months on land to reach Ohio. By plotting this site and 38 other sites (many from western Europe) on a world map we have located the position in the Atlantic where these ancients came from. Just as your Stonehenge with its 30 windows and outer trench was built to work as a lunar calander this site may add to the understanding of the ancient bronze age we do not understand. Before you destroy this part of history please see if it is a recording showing where these people came from.
Claims have been made the Dinedor Serpent is being used a way to stop the road. And your point is?
Finding the Serpent makes the Rotherwas cul-de-sac an even more foolish road to nowhere. It was already opposed by government, who refused to fund it, and by the UDP inspector, who said there was no economic or traffic case for it (and even if there was, there were better alternatives to improving access to Rotherwas). Consultants said any road should be nearer town not in open country.
Now we find an internationally significant monument on it's route, and our imaginative council says it is best preserved "for this and future generations" by pouring concrete over it and allowing heavy lorries to shake it to pieces.
We should listen to the Chair of the Stonehenge and Salisbury Tourism Partnership who says that Salisbury District Council would not dream of doing this without consulting first with local tourism businesses. She says: "Salisbury District Council recognise and support the value of tourism to the region. Herefordshire Council now needs to stand back and review with ALL the interested parties".
The key economic question is: "What will create more wealth for the county? A road to an industrial estate, or the development of a heritage and learning park including Dinedor and the Serpent?." The answer is clear - tourism is a much bigger earner for Herefordshire than further growth in heavy, road-dependent industry.
The key archeological question is: "What is the best way to preserve this find?" Clearly leaving it open to the elements is a non-starter, but putting it under a road for heavy lorries is completely ridiculous. We can only hope English Heritage do their stuff and schedule this, free from political pressure.
Council officers must be under tremendous (and unfair) pressure to defend this road against all the evidence but they should not have to defend council polices, only advise and implement them. It's time for the Council's political leaders to come out and show some true leadership and courage, admit they got it wrong, and stop the road. A lot of us would respect them for that.
Rob Hattersley
The Rotherwas Ribbon case prompts a number of questions, most importantly:
1. Are local authorities and their specialist officers still bogged down in outdated mindsets regarding archaeological heritage? The symptom is a failure to recognise that many sites, especially from the Neolithic and Bronze Ages, are comprised of ritual landscapes rather than single stand-alone structures. The result is that wider investigation of areas surrounding identified structures is denied, with a resultant loss of archaeology and knowledge. The Rotherwas Ribbon would seem to be a prime example that will stand alongside Thornborough Henges and the Boyne Valley in the Irish Republic.
2. The lack of transparency and secrecy over local council decisions seems to have become more prevalent in recent years, which is a factor that that has impact in the whole area of LA responsibility.
The Rotherwas Ribbon exemplifies these two emergent trends, and for what? To construct an access road to an industrial site?
From Barrie Foster, Managing Editor, www.historyunlimited.co.uk
I'm quite disgusted at the attitude of Hereford Councillors, who seem to know the price of everything, and the value of nothing. We MUSt, by whatever means, stop this road along this route, and we should not be diverted by party political games, one way or another. What does Paul Keetch have to say?
By the way, I hope the small-minded butchers, bakers and retired nobodies (who will leave absolutely NO mark on history) who are behind this wicked decision, are aware that they will mobilise thousands of ordinary people from all over the country .
Ian, Wolverhampton.
If the site is potentially of similar importance as Stone Henge, I cannot understand that it is not excavated properly and protected as a national heritage site. The rarity of such a find should be welcome by Herefordshire Council as it will in time increase tourism in this area.
Why is this not a constant national news item? I was watching the "One Show" last night, people wittering on about unimportant drivel, why is this important site not mentioned on this Current Affairs programme. I don't really subscribe to conspiracy theories but who benefits most from this road-someone, somewhere is making money-you bet and that i'm afraid is what the world is about these days. Let's hope that the people who built this had a less fiscal reason for doing so.
Having moved out of the Herefordshire area several years ago, I only first heard about the Rotherwas Ribbon last night. The thought of such a unique serpent Bronze Age structure in Herefordshire really excites me. Compared to other areas of the country, Herefordshire has very few siginificant Neolithic/Bronze Age structures and monuments. I simply can't believe that they might just tarmac over it! How retarded are these people?!
Although I feel that the road is needed, it is a shame to tarmac over the Ribbon. Could the road not be raised and the Ribbon displayed in an underpass with a reinforced glass protective cover. While this is an expensive option it may be a better option than either redirecting the road or covering up a valuable archaeological site forever.
Visits are being arranged in the last week of the normal school term - my son aged 9 would like to visit (as I am sure would many other people of all ages). How dare they decide when to open it to visitors without a wider discussion as to its long-term status.
I am afraid that the action by the HCC is entirely typical - they are impervious to criticism, insist on going ahead with their ill-thought out schemes no mtter how many protests there are.
How on earth this group were ever retured to power, I cannot understand - makes one despair of the Hereforshire electorate. Now, since the old system of one-third of councillors standking for election each year, and elections every three years, they know that they have almost four years before they can be ousted.
Is any protest worthwhile? Not locally, perhpas, but this has now become a national issue. Thank heaven for the media in this case.
I think people should take a step back and look at the logical rather than emotive reasons behind this. We don't, as yet, have all the hard facts about what has happened - and until we do - can we feasibly make a realistic call on the right future?
My views are:
1) Hereford needs a relief road to stop traffic going through the centre of the town - not just from the Ross area, but mainly from city north such as Worcester and Leominster. Putting in a relief road to stop lorries going through the centre of town may provide enough of an incentive to make the extra journey along the M50.
2) It is important to preserve a momument of this proportion - however don't forget the real reason on everyone's minds - money. Very few people have mentioned keeping it open for the sake of a wonderful monument - it is all about what financial gain would come of the additional tourism. In which case, these people are as guilty as the council who are trying to make money out of the relief road.
3) What is the cost and benefit of turning this into a heritage site? I have heard figures banded around of millions of extra revenue from tourism - however, how much will it cost to build facilities - create road links and footways etc? I would like to see some evidence of previous examples where this has been done and tourist revenue has been increased significantly enough to cover the initial expenditure and operational costs.
4) We would never have found this momument unless the relief road was started.
5) The council have been accused of building unaffordable housing not far from this relief road. Who would want to buy an expensive property a short distance from what is essentially a bypass? Affordable housing is relative. Housing prices in Hereford are not that astronomical - average wages are disgracefully low, and hereford needs industrial investment. Where the council are guilty here are by consistently raising rates for business owners - to the point that no valid business case exists. Maybe a combination of the relief road and some sensible rate checks would result in businesses being willing to invest in Hereford?
6) Are we seriously going to try and stop a road that is so far down the line of construction from being built?
Don't get me wrong - I am not a fan of the council in the slightest - they have made many, many mistakes, and continue to make ridiculous decisions about things. That said the relief road is a good idea - and hopefully another link in the chain to a long overdue Hereford bypass.
Jim
I have just returned from Krakow in Poland, A UNESCO world heritage site, which is under severe threat from mindless developers / culture vandals... They are digging huge holes in the middle of the City Square without archaeology worth a damn. We are talking about what is currently one of the finest unspoilt Renaissance centres in the world. What they are doing is illegal under the Valletta convention which seeks to preserve our joint European cultural heritage. We are doing what we can to help the locals against the corruption and self interest of the developers...
Imagine my horror on returning home to Herefordshire to find that a unique site of major archaeological significance is about to be destroyed without reference to cultural or even local economic interests...
Those responsible for decision making should be aware that they are clearly contravening several international treaties including Valletta (The European Convention on the Protection of Archaeological Heritage) and Florence (The European Landscape Convention).
heritagelaw.org/
European-International-Conventions
I don't agree with Jim on the need for the road (neither did the government or UDP inspectors) but he is absolutely right about the need to step back and think logically about this. That is exactly what is being called for, for example by Cllr. Lloyd-Hayes, who is asking for a pause in road construction to allow time for proper democratic debate, and for example for the council to consult with tourism businesses and other experts. Unfortunately they are so desperate to press ahead with the road come what may they look as though they are prepared to ride roughshod over public opinion and not even consult councillors. I hope they prove me wrong.
As Rob has shown, there is a clear divide between people as to whether or not the road is worth it, and as he quite rightly says, the only way of resolving this is to hold a public and democratic debate.
I think pretty much uninanimously people will want to save the structure found - and rightly so.
My view is that we need to fully understand the council's plan as to the fiscal benefit of placing the road. As much as I think it would be a good idea (largely uninformed), I would be furious if I were to discover that there was no 3 or 5 year plan to raise the profile and subsequent development in Hereford.
-Jim
12th July
We feel it is vital to allow more time to have an evaluation of the importance of this find. There should be discussion at a national level. If this site is really unique witin the UK, maybe Europe, then we do not have the right to cover it for local considerations. Looked at another way, an important site like this could be very good for Herefordshire tourism and the local econmy.
David & Jane Straker
The council must stop work and go back to the drawing board.
The serpent and its surroundings need a full research project to uncover the various sites. It seems to me that we have an area that could become a real focal point in showing how our ancient ancestors lived. The financial possibilities for the local economy are tremendous.
As someone with amateur interest in Britain's archaeology, a deep love of Herefordshire and an eye for visitor interest, several aspects of this story puzzle me.
1: The secrecy – who wanted to have the deal done and dusted before anyone else found out about the Ribbon and it was too late to protest?
2: Covering the site with a road to ‘preserve it’ - eh? what?
3: The lack of foresight. Ancient British monuments are wonderful resources for heritage, education, tourism opportunities [and subsequent benefit to the local economy] and learning more about our ancestors and the way they lived. Herefordshire is a rich and diverse county - the Ribbon can only add to this.
Herefordshire Council must act with caution on this. Whatever the [doubtful] advantages the new Rotherwas road might bring to the county, this archaeological site has rapidly attracted international interest.
Decisions about the Ribbon's fate must be made after listening to expert opinion and consultation from English Heritage. Careful consideration must be made about the importance of the site and the enhancements it could bring to the County both now and in the future.
The council might lose a few brownie points if it ignores opinion and passes up an opportunity for a Heritage site of international reputation and importance that could be used to the County's advantage.
Mary Tolhurst
Artistic Director, Hereford Three Choirs Festival Fringe
It sounds to me as if all work should stop in the area until a thorough evaluation of the site has been made. If it's of national significance surely Herefordshire can expect some national financial support.
Tarmac in haste repent at leisure!
Please see what could be achieved in Hereford, with some imagination: this is an image of the Ohio Serpent, which appears to be the only other site like it in the world. Perhaps the Cabinet of Herefordshire Council should try googling for inspiration
http://www.hp.uab.edu/image_archive/up/mound01.jpg
The council was very secrative about this.
I suspect they knew there would be uproar at the site being concreted over and were probably hoping they would'nt have to say anything until the job was done.
Very similar to the secretive way that archaeological sites were hidden away from the public in Kent during the construction of the channel tunnel rail link.
The government knew that if people found out what was being bulldozed that would want the project stopped.
The Hill of Tara area is under threat from road building. The local peoples wishes are being ignored. Monuments have been bulldozed away including a number of ancient burial sites.
And the Thornborough Henges a Neolithic complex in Yorkshire is in danger from quarrying and this in spite of objections from locals and people around the country.
Gillies Hill is another place under threat from quarrying. It is environmentally, archaeologically and historically important but local people are being ignored.
And now this.
A unique find. Nothing like has been found in this country.
There a numerous ways it can be preserved so that the public can view it and protect it from the elements.
In Ireland an Iron age trackway called the Corlea bog trackway has been preserved in a building with a walkway so the public can view the walkway below. This also has a visitor centre attached which has displays devoted to the Iron age.
There is no reason that I can see apart from the council being stubborn that this monument can not be preserved in such a way.
From reading various articles on this, it appears people were against the road from the start.
The council seems intent on ignoring the wishes of local people.
Is this I wonder because it's they that will lose out profit wise if the road does'nt go ahead.
The excuse of it'll create jobs and economic prosperity is the same one used up and down the country by developers to justify the destruction of our heritage and countryside.
We the people are not listened to. We are the ones who have to live with the mess these people live behind.
I would love to have helped out at any demonstration that you put together. Unfortunatly I live in Cardiff and have no car.
Good luck to you all and I hope you are successful.
I have written to all the councillors about this matter, and, while several have expressed concern, those who will decide the fate of this major historical find appear to be dismissive of its importance and determined to go ahead with the road no matter what anyone says. Councillor John Jarvis, Cabinet Member (Environment and Strategic Housing), stated in a reply to me 'I trust you will be able to visit the site next week to see exactly what is being described as a second Stonehenge' which indicates his dismissive attitude and lack of understanding of its significance, and a lack of interest in any solution other than burying what could be a major tourist attraction to Hereford. This is apart from its archaeological importance and necessity for access for study in the future. Councillor Jarvis clearly thinks size is everything, and because it is not a towering monument like Stonehenge, he thinks it is of no worth. Most councillors have not replied.
The picture of the US serpent shows just how impressive this site could be, we have to stop these idiots.
Hereford Journal 27.6.07 has a story about an Audit Commission report on Herefordshire Council:
"Although it has "an ambitious vision of how tourism will look in Herefordshire in 2007 and its potential contribution to economic development", and tourism plays a significant part in the local economy, "it is not clear whether this is improving"...visitor numbers were static at 4.6 million, overnight visits declined and there was no significant change in spend per head."
Surely the Serpent represents an opportunity to develop tourism in the County, but not if it is buried beneath a road?
I thought you might like to know that the BBC coverage of the 8 arrests on their website is referring to the road as a "relief road". According to what I have read, this is not the case, and adds an erroneously 'positive' character to the road.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6895710.stm
As a professional archaeologist I am fully behind the campaign to re-route the road and fully understand the archaeology of the site.
Perhaps the objectors to the Rotherwas Access Road, who are now jumping on the “Rotherwas Ribbon” bandwagon, would like to find the funding for major employers on the Rotherwas Industrial Estate to move to a more suitable location. This would enable these businesses to continue operating when the River Wye floods and also allow world class products to avoid the restrictions of the low railway bridge on the Holme Lacy Road
Allen R Green, Joint Managing Director, A K Industries Limited
Perhaps Allen R Green, Joint Managing Director, A K Industries Limited would like to trash all our heritage sites for the sake of short term profits. The Stonehenge Business Park? They could doubtless use the stones and make claims to be recycling.
This is not the case of objectors to the Rotherwas Access Road jumping on the 'Rotherwas Ribbon' bandwagon, but many concerned people with a little more vision than narrow minded profiteers clearly possess. Why should taxpayers 'find the funding for major employers on the Rotherwas Industrial Estate to move to a more suitable location'? And why should a world-class archaeological site be sacrificed to a road with limited usefullness apart from these few businesses? Many if not most of those justifiably ourtaged at this proposed vandalism had never heard about this road, so can hardly be accused of being part of an anti-road lobby, unless Allen R Green thinks this is a huge conspiracy by archaeologists across the world, heritage organisations in the UK, Stonehenge tourism directors and others to spoil his profit projections.
Apparently there is already an adequate road to this commercial estate, how certain members of the council were 'persuaded' that another was vital remains to be discovered, perhaps by a public enquiry.
"The election results could hardly have been worse. The Tory Party was smashed. Their opponents achieved a big working majority; it was clear that the Tories would be out of office for many years to come. Worse, the election had not simply been about policies. The electorate had shown a deep dislike for the Tories as a party and for all they stood for. Many of the party's leading figures spoke in public and private of their despair."
So writes Douglas Hurd in the July edition of History Today. He was writing about the first democratic election in 1832 but I suspect I am not alone in hoping that it will also be true of the Herefordshire Tories at the next election.
As the slogan for the magazine says "WhatHappened Then Matters Now."
As I have lived in Herefordshire all my life as did my parents etc. There is little chance that the unique Hereford's "Stonehenge " find will survive without help from English Hereitage. The Hfs. County Councillors are unlike those in Salibury and many are unable to understand the importance of our cultural heritage. The public are just a bother, I and others have been thrown out of 'so called' public Councill meetings. By chance I went to a lecture on 'Neolithic Britain' given in Hereford by the proffessor from Manchester. Also o to "10 years of Herefordshire Archeology" by Dr Kieth Ray.He said we have found the tip of the iceburg. Herefordhire was not considered an important county- archaeolgicaly until recent years.
Hereford City is listed as one of GREAT HERITAGE VALUE along with ahout 48 others including York. How widely this is realised one cannot know.
Herefordshire NEEDS all the help it can get to save this unique find, from as many people and organisations a possible.
What I witnessed yesterday at the council meeting I can only describe as an abuse of power and further waste of police and public time and money by the council rather than just answer the question that every one wants to know, is there going to be an open vote open to all councillors from what I understood of it, well is there?
Twenty-one years ago, Hereford Cathedral authorities came within a whisker of SELLING their priceless Mappa Mundi map at auction. Now it is one of the jewels in the city's tourism crown. Is it REALLY possible that the philistines have returned and that the city is once again going to look a cultural gift horse in the mounth?
The easiest way to resolve this is to get all parties to the table to discuss the situation.
We need a limited number of Hereford representatives from the Council, Rotherwas Industry and Tourist Industry. A public session/debate can then be had between the parties, chaired by someone from out of town, with no axe to grind, and agree to come out with a sensible decision - that everyone sticks to.
We will waste millions by arguing and not getting a decision - I would hate to think of the contract metrics that Alfred McAlpine are currently suffering because of this ongoing, non-productive communication.
Does someone have significant access to the council to make this happen in an independant way - if so - lets do it, and hear all arguments as facts once and for all.
-Jim
Its seems clear that the real reason the backers of the road have pushed so hard to fund and build it against all educated opinion is because they are orchestrating a land-grab...
The land between the road and Hereford would be worth a huge amount of money if available for building. If this isn't the case, why didn't they build the road along a more sensible route avoiding the greenbelt nearer to town, or upgrade the existing access?
I feel there will be a satisfying irony if, for once, the selfish vested interests of a few are defeated by ordinary people who value their cultural heritage :-)
Mindless Vandalism
The comment by 'anonymous' hits the nail on the head. When the road was first up for planning approval objector said that the land between it and Hereford would get developed for housing - the Council said it wouldn't and that this was not a relevant consideration in granting (itself!) planning approval for the road. Then a year later the Council manipulated the Unitary Development Plan - against the findings of a full Public Enquiry - to allocate land for housing specifically and overtly to gain contributions from the housing developer to pay for the road. This road is not about improving access to Rotherwas - if the Council really cared about that they would have resolved that in cheaper ways years agao - it is about vested interests making huge profits from planning gains. Remember Bloor Homes bought several hundred acres of this land several years ago (enough land for many thousands of houses). Money talks - heritage doesn't. Do the people of Hereford want our heritage, which turns out to be UNIQUE IN THE WORLD, destroyed in the name of short term, sordid vested interests - I think not! It is time for a public full enquiry into the way inwhich the Council has tried to keep all of this quiet.
I have every sympathy with Allen Green and his fellow managers in Rotherwas. They are only trying to keep their businesses going and people in work.
But, if the Rotherwas site is already subject to flooding, with the new flood defences on the Bishop's Meadow that is only likely to get worse, as the water is pushed more quickly downstream.
I hear there are empty industrial estates at Moreton, Leominster and Ross, all better placed logistically. Perhaps the Rotherwas businesses should push the Council for a favourable transfer package and low rent period.
It's important that due, unhasty consideration be given to such a site. Historic sites benefit us in numerous positive ways. If the site is truly unique it would be an atrocity to lose it without proper archaeological investigation.
MK Hewitt
These are the replies I recieved from the council:
" I have a great interest in Hereford and the heritage of the area, being a decendent of a very old Hereford family. I ask that you do not tar every councillor with the same brus or assume we are all male.. As an Independent Councillor I listen to my electorate! I have lost count of the letters,emails and telephone calls I have received in regard to the "Rotherwas Ribbon" and have answered all correspondence received.
I will be going to see the site on Monday for myself, and will make my own judgement then.
Cllr Glenda Powell"
"Dear Ms Peters
Thank you for your e-mail concerning the Rotherwas Ribbon, the contents of which are noted.
I confirm that English Heritage has been kept informed throughout the process and their Inspectors, including their Regional Director, have made visits to the site. Both English Heritage and the Council's Archaeological Officer agree that this is a significant find worthy of being fully recorded for future research and protected in-situ. A report by English Heritage is awaited and, once received, options will be appraised and a report submitted to a meeting of the Council's Cabinet on a date to be fixed.
In order to help make the whole issue open and available to the public, visits have been arranged [by appointment only] to run between 1.00 pm and 4.30 pm Monday-Saturday 16-21 July 2007. If you have not already made arrangements to see the find, but wish to book a place, please telephone 01432 260000 between 11.00 am and 5.00 pm any weekday.
In conclusion, I attach an information sheet with some useful questions-and-answers which I hope you find of interest.
Kind regards
Brian Wilcox (Cllr)
Cabinet Member - Highways and Transportation "
"Thank you for your email. I suggest you follow this link http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/news_events2/RotherwasNews2.htm and scroll down to the section ' Why does it have to be covered up?' and further sections. English Heritage have been closely involved in this find. They are the experts. I do hope you find this website useful and take the opportunity to visit the ribbon.
Regards
Councillor Morgan (Mrs)"
Just a thought but could not someone make a profile for this campaign on My Space.
Does the Council ever conduct market research to discover what the people of Hereford actually want? Its great that the regeneration of High Town means we can choose where to have a coffee from about 10 venues within 600yds - but I'm not sure the bankrupt business owners who could't survive the redevelopment take pleasure in that.
Its also great that the Council believes the Rotherwas Access Road would attract an influx of industry and businesses, but I tend to agree with the DTI's decision that it probably won't. Hereford would still be some 15 miles from major transport links and this tiny section of road would make no difference to the arduous journey still necessary from Wilton Roundabout at Ross. I am not aware that Hereford has any major employment problems so I cannot see why new businesses would find Hereford attractive when there isn't necessarily a work force available.
The Rotherwas Ribbon on the other hand, really could make a difference to the economy and financial bouyancy of Hereford and its Shire. There are an abundance of small independent businesses that would benefit from an increase in tourism.
I just wish the Council could accept and embrace the inevitable future of Herefordshire. It is a market towns, market city, countryside haven - perfect for people looking to escape the rat race and soak up the heritage and culture of Middle England.
It is not a metropolis for big businesses within 5 minutes of the motorway.
I just hope something can be done before it is too late.
Nothing surpises me anymore. I commute all over the UK with my job. When I mention Hereford to my customers they have an idyllic, holiday destination in mind. They sometimes have cider in mind, the Cathedral or sheep in general. Not once has one said "oh yes, the big commercial metropolis!"
For the first time in years Hereford has something to offer that is more than any other destination. How many jobs do you think such a visitor attraction would generate? Much more than Rotherwas Ind Est I guarantee.
We are all in a hurry to copy other towns and cities rather than distancing ourselves from them to be unique and special.
I am horrified that something so significant to the world will be lost, all for the sake of saving face.
Councillors need to swallow their pride and say "Yes, you're right, it should be cherished...what shall we do to maximise it's potential?" Not " Oh no someone's head will roll".
Grow up and start acting like an adult before generations to come miss out on a once in a lifetime experience.
The proposed covering of the Ribbon is a discrace by a council that does not have the imagination or vision as to the benifits to the local low wage economy with the increase in tourism, or realising the loss to future genarations of such an inportant site. The behaviour of the council in not debating this action in open council must be chanllenged. This is not democracy.
I think you should all take a look in some prehistoric archaeology books, the "serpant" is not unqiue in Eurpoe, it isnt even unique to this country, who ever compared it to Stonehenge has spent to long in Hereford and needs to get out into the real world, the only way to preseve it is to bury it back under the ground thats kept it safe, the road traffic wont "shake it to bits" , if the site is 4000 years old then it has no conection with the Dinedor camp as this is an iron age camp. if you think its going to be a big tourist attraction then why dont promote all the hillforts in the county, credenhill is one of the largest in the country yet how many people have asked for a visitor centre to be built there?, just about every hill in hereford has a story to tell, but no one seems bothered...until a road is planed..
Perhaps the previous commentator could reveal their name and qualifications for making this statement? There are plenty of well-qualified people who think this find is tremendously important - even the Council haven't denied that.
Mind you, the earth is flat you know, and climate change is just made up by all those rich environmentalists on the make...
Had a few more councillors reply.
Some were not happy about whats going on with the ribbon.
My qualifications consist of twenty five years field experience, a degree and a PhD in archaeology, I’ve seen and worked on sites like this all over the country and abroad, I did not say this wasn’t an important find, but implied that Hereford has some major sites that the locals or council don’t seem to appreciate, you have for instance a series of “Unique Churches” of which out of nine in the country I believe Hereford has eight, you have a “School of carving” who’s influence spread world wide, you have a “Major Roman Town” which is just some humps in field with no visitor centre or even interpretive panels, and you have a “Plethora of Major Hill forts” which I doubt half the population have been to or even know about., What are your qualifications for jumping on the band wagon with your knee jerk reactions, when some prehistoric archaeology is discovered that may upset the plans to build a road, where were you lot when the new houses where built on the Stirling lines… have you asked about the bronze age monument that now lies under the housing development. You cant save all the archaeology, you can record it and take measures to preserve it, if you want to exploit it for tourism , then look to the archaeology that you’ve already got and that your are ignoring to your own detriment .
I am amazed by the reaction to the discovery of the "Rotherwas ribbon". This county is heaving with important sites, many of which the average Herefordian doesnt seem to know about! We have the second largest Iron Age hill fort in the country (Credenhill), we have a complete walled Roman town (Kenchester), a unique group of Romanesque churches including the best preserved Norman parish church in the country (Kilpeck). The list goes on and on. These sites are very poorly promoted locally, in some cases there's not even a sign or a display board on the site to tell you what youre looking at. The "ribbon" may be an important site but so are the others. The reaction to the ribbon is a little disproportionate in my view, it is not going to be the huge tourist draw people are suggesting, but some of the sites mentioned above would be and deserve to be, if only people knew they were there! Perhaps we need some more hippies jumping up and down bleating about their heritage to get the sites we already have recognised and properly promoted? Or does it have to be threatened by a road first? Why is a stony track so important when we can ignore or undervalue so many other local sites?
short-sighted and shameful.Who will gain by this descration?
It seems odd that someone with a PhD in archaeology and 25-years field experience can come out with statements such as, "I think you should all take a look in some prehistoric archaeology books, the "serpant" is not unqiue in Europe, it isnt even unique to this country" and "look to the archaeology that you’ve already got and that your are ignoring to your own detriment".
Firstly, I would like to know exactly which other bronze-age stone-covered serpentine earthworks exist in Europe? And the UK? You may be correct that there are others, but I'm certainly not aware of them. (The Wansdyke??)
Secondly, the fact that Herefordshire has some "Unique Churches", a "Major Roman Town", a "Plethora of Major Hill forts" etc is hardly any consolation to someone who is interested in bronze age monuments and archaeology! You wouldn't try and console someone in a record shop with, "Sorry, we don't have any Beatles or Hendrix LPs, but we do have some James Blunt and Gloria Estafan".
Finally, I agree that this site will never be a popular tourist attraction (even if the road wasn't built), but surely there are hundreds of bronze age sites around the country that are not huge attractions but are still enjoyed by many people. I often bump into other enthusiasts on my visits to such places.
Hi Moz,
Thrupp Trackway, Abingdon, excavated 1997 if you want to see a similar example.
PS Moz
have you been to see the site yet?
If the County Archaeologist says that the site is as important and as significant as Stone Henge then the Serpent must be saved for future generations to be able to go and see, how can the local council dream about building a road over such an important monument? I want my children and their children to be able to appreciated the Dinedor Serpent in all its glory.
I will probably upset quite a few people with my comments. If this site was preserved as an equivalent of Stonehenge; at huge cost I might add; I wonder how many thousands of visitors will actually flock to see it once the initial interest in it has worn off. Maybe a few people interested in archaeology, but I can't imagine families taking a trip to see what is basically a stone path; and not particularly eye catching one at that. Hereford cathedral, the remains of the town wall, the buildings still preserved in the town centre, to mention just a few, are more likely to attract visitors than a row of not very interesting stones laid down by our ancient ancestors. Stonehenge is amazing, and shows how our ancestors could manage to build monuments with no powered machinery; I have visited it several times, and it never fails to impress, but a path of stones; I personally don't think so.
Tourism is a very important industry nationally, and may soon become one of our top 3 earners. All the political parties are manifestly behind supporting all efforts to encourage and enable this to happen. So they claim.
Herefordshire has a rich history and few counties have the variety and wealth of sites and buildings along with the unspoilt rural landscape.
The development of our tourist trade based around our history and countryside would be far more fitting and reflective of the county.
This is far more environmentally sustainable than attempting to attract heavy industry in a rural environment, as well as being more cost/return efficient.
The number of people who would benefit from an increased investment in tourism far out numbers the few Industrialist, or is it the Developers, who are doing very nicely already, would benefit from the road,
Tourism in Herefordshire is badly promoted, not by those trying too, but by those who should be but are not, there has been little investment, lack of debate, co-ordination, and a failure to produce and act on a policy to actually do something.
People have expressed strong feelings against the treatment of monument, many have shown their respect for such things, Archaeologists around the world are very interested, it is now important to people, and now that should be respected like any other similar site.
Was really disappointed when i visited the site! Nowhere near as fantasic as Stonehenge( Bad comparison) or the Ohio Serpent. It didn't even compare to the Oban Serpant. I wonder if the many people who haved jumped on the protest band wagon would be so keen if it had to raise our concil tax to build the heritage park requsted.
Why has the council not protected the site from the current terrible weather as required by law? They promised they would do this... I suppose they mean to protect it by covering it in concrete, or let it wash away so that they can claim that there is nothing to preserve. All I can say is expect a court case for negligence... The level of ignorance in some of the posters making direct comparisons with Stonehenge make one think that they MUST be council members... :-)
Having visited the ribbon last week, I must assume that those that are adamant that it must be preserved as a tourist attraction have a) Not seen it, or b) Have a motive that has little to do with a concern for the archaeology. It worries me that this site has a dual tag line - Save the ribbon : Stop a road that is not needed. I feel that this site is entirely set up for the latter.
I am a local Archaeologist (that has not previously posted here) and I am amazed by the outrageous statements made by the County Archaeologist and the ability of the general public to absorb the first theory that comes along and take it for gospel. Archaeology is a talking shop of ideas and theories that then rely on science to prove their worth. If the County archaeologist had done his research before being starstruck by the presence of BBC cameras he would have found many paralells to the site (abingdon - see previous post AND check it for yourself). The serpent shape COULD be intentional or COULD be the result of water run off (think river meander). The site archaeologist informed me that the monument had already changed in form due to weathering in the three weeks it has been open. If, during the bronze age it had been open for a year, is what we see now the original concept? Even if I am 100% wrong, due to the nature of the geology and delicate nature of the monument, the ONLY way to preserve this feature is to bury it. Ignore the hype, go and see it, then tell me if you would be willing to divert taxes to create a visitor attraction for this feature if it were not helping your ultimate motive of stopping an unpopular road. Have your campaign against the road but don't dress it up as a rightious campaign for archaeology.
At last a few more sensible comments are finally being aired. The initial hype seems to have really started when the Serpent was compared to Stonehenge, and people were misguided into thinking that this path of stones could form the basis of turning it into a World famous venue so people would converge on Hereford to stare in wonderment at basically nothing. If the new road was not being built, it would not have been found anyway, and so naturally people opposed to the new road jumped on this "significant find" in order to help their cause. If an ancient building site had been unearthed, which would lead to a greater understanding of how people lived a long time ago, then I would probably agree with it being preserved as a monument, but a stone path ???
I've seen the 'serpent' and I'm amazed that they've left it open to the elements in the way they have, it's absolutely crazy. The original would surely have had ditches to channel water around the feature.
To those that aren't impressed, there's a potentially small part of it exposed at the moment and no geophys has been done to find out how long it stretches for. If it is as big as some people predict then it could be as impressive a sight as the Uffington White Horse.
Most archaeologists I've spoken to are in agreement that there is something special about the site and there's bound to be more discoveries. To continue blindly building the road before a proper survey/consultation has been completed doesn't seem a sensible decision.
If the councillors and archaeologists who have posted their comments here have the kind of attitude that they do then no wonder our Bristish heritage and culture are disappearing down the toilet!!!! Our monuments and sites are being torn down, buried or worse still in the case of the Stonehenge 'know it alls' putting a road under it - sacrilige, you wouldn't do it to your Christian churches now would you??!!!! (Yes, yes we hear of YOUR conceived benefits of doing this but what you will destroy because of this will be untold!!!)
Regardless of the tourism potential for this area this monument should be preserved, or at least excavated before conclusions reached - see the finds from the excavations at Thrupp Trackway and the Oban Serpant - are these still not as important to our history and culture or do people like to place more value on sites such as Stonehenge simply because they are standing and you can see them and they have a nice tourist centre and quaint giftshop??? Use your imagination people, this place may not look much but would you after 4,000 years or neglect??!!! As in the case of the serpent mound in Ohio, we can see what a bit of careful preservation does!!!
The road is wrong - serpent or no serpent, it breaks my heart when I walk up Dinedor now to see this great tarmac scar running through the once perfect countryside and I am astounded that any archaeologist would allow this to happen when it is at the crux of our being!!! Yes - I agree that the other wonderful sites in and around Herefordshire need to be promoted, I've been to nearly every one and each is unique and spectacular but then again if you did promote it we would be inundated with tourists ruining the peace of the place, leaving rubbish and generally disrespecing the site as they do at Stonehenge on the Solstice (which is why the serpent must be properly protected!!!) Dinedor itself is a wondeful place, full of atmosphere, history and peace and you would think the council would want to protect that alone not build houses around it, least of all a highly controversal and useless road, funded by backhanders.
We need to start standing up to these fatcats because these people are creating a '1984' situation where we will no longer have rights, our culture will be destroyed and buried under houses and roads (just like Amesbury in Salisbury)and become so Americanised that I'm afraid after thousands/millions of years in the making, Britain History as we know it will be no more and we will have succumbed to the rather Cromwellian 'New World Order'.
Come on people, the council don't care about us or the monument - just money. Speak up, shout, scream and protest and don't go without a fight!!!
P.S Following my previous post above - I have also been to see the Serpent. It may not be much to some people (lack of imaginiation and spirit I'd imagine)but this is a powerful and beautiful little site regardless and I would love to see what they dig up around the area. Whatever it is it is a wonderful piece of engineering for it's time and it invokes the spirit of our ancestral heritage!!!
The irony of spending so much money on one road to nowhere, totally escapes Cllr. Olwyn Barnet,when whats been witnessed these last few days highlights to need to improve Herefordshires highways across the county to help us cope with flooding.This new road would of been absolutely no benefit to anyone in Herefordshire, once out of the industrial estate where were they going to go, all our external links out of the county were cut.This has shown how the arguement to help the estate cope with flooding is the real band wagon being jumped on here, not as a few commentors have tried to claim those of us trying to protect such an important site. To use the recent and on going problems as an excuse for thier behavior over this site is totally unexceptable, and the implied accusation that those people who want to ensure its protection have and are not helping with the mess we are facing is yet another insult to the people of Herefordshire. Is this councillor really up to the job, does she really represent those who voted her into office, I doubt it very much.
Also is there any news on the damage done over the weekend by the councils neglect to protect the site?.
Unfortunatly as I don't live near the Rotherwas ribbon I could not go and see it on the open days.
And also unfortunatly if the council get their way I will never be able to get a look at it.
From the pictures I've seen it looks interesting to me.
The trouble it it needs a lot more investigation to see just how extensive it is.
It might not be a standing structure like Stonehenge but that does not mean that it is any less important.
As I mentioned in a previous post there is an Iron age walkway in Ireland that has been preserved in a special building with a vistor centre.
It is thought that this particular track is in fact a ritual trackway.
Now surely the same could be done for the Rotherwas Ribbon.
Out of interest has the Iron Age fort been properly investigated on Dinedor Hill?
Only some Iron age forts are built on older remains such as causwayed enclosures which are neolithic.
Has the hill had an older history maybe.
This may explain the Rotherwas ribbon.
Could it have been a ritual trackway like the trackway in Ireland.
I might not be an archaeolgist but am very interested in the subject.
I have read quite extensively on prehistoric britain and always like to get information on the latest discoveries.
I have to admit I've not come across site descriptions quite like what has been uncovered at Rotherwas.
It does seem to be an unusual structure.
And while heredfordshire might have many interesting monuments is that any justification for putting a road that was even before this discovery, highly controversial,over it.
With a bit of imagination this could be an interesting site for visitors.
The actual site itself, a visitor centre detailing life in Heredfordshire in the Bronze age, a trail up to the fort on the
hill, something along these lines.
It is unfortunate that in this day and age people seem to have lost their imaginations. Whatever this structure was it might well have been part of a ritual landscape.
Look at Stonehenge, it is surrounded by numerous round barrows and other prehistoric monuments.
There are various walks you can take to look at these.
You can even just see some of the ditches of the great cursus which is a monument older than Stonehenge.
Now the thing about the cursus is that all that is visible is slight traces of the ditches despite the fact that it is 3km long by 100 to 150 metres wide.
Yet there is a sighnposted walk to it. I've walked along it and you can see some of the ditches.
Round barrows are everywhere, many quite impressive, yet no doubt some of the doubters on here would all seem boring.
When I visit these ancient sites no matter how impressive or not I do wonder who the people were who made these, who made monuments of stone, wood and earth. How did they live, what did they wear, what did they eat, what sort of things went on at these sites.
And the same with the Rotherwas Ribbon. What was it for, where did it lead to and from, what else is there waiting to be discovered.
This could be an interesting long term project that the community in the area could all get involved with.
Much more imaginative than a road.
And people do need imagination and escapism in their lives especially at times like this and at times like this and a project involving the investigation of the ribbon with community help could be just the ticket.
Reference CllR Olwyn Barnets Comments, It's a shame her response was so ridiculaous.If she really is so concerned with the flooding which has devastated much of the country then why so little help councillor with the flood victims and on covering over and protecting the 'Ribbon' when you were warned days in advance????
Yet this same council managed to put 2 large 'DO NOT PARK HERE OR THE POLICE WILL BE INFORMED SIGNS - on tuesday - at the height of the flooding!!?? Onto MY 'SAVE THE RIBBON' Mobile protest VW Camper parked on the grassed area on Holmer Road, Not in anybodys way or doing any harm.
It's a shame you don't put the same sign on the tens of vehicles parked in the same spot Over each and every weekend when people visit The Leisure Centre or B and Q ??
I'm afraid this shows Hereford Councils contempt for 'The Ribbon' and trying to stop us Peaceful protestors any way they can.
Well you won't stop me!!!!
ok, i've read the main page so i hope this doesnt come across as offensive, its just my opinion
I dont see the big fuss, if you ask me its just a muddy pile of rubble! Before you go on at me ive read about it and i understand the significance of the stones but i really cant see people travelling from miles away to see this. People are comparing it with stone henge!!! thats just ridiculous, there are plenty more things around the county that are more beautiful and far more significant that need attention. Enough of our money gets wasted every year on unnecessary work around hereford, why prolong the work of the road any longer? I feel, living very close to rotherwas, we need the road. Sometimes in the mornings im sat at the end of my street waiting for 5 minutes or more just to pull out onto the holme lacy road, its ridiculous.
so sorry if i upset any of you but i feel they should just get o and build the road and either move the stones to another site or go around them. personally id just carry on the course but thats just my opinion.
at last someone with a realistic opinion to all this drivel
Dear Anonymous.
The councils own study on the traffic caused by this road states that congestion will increase by over 20% as a result of this road, this means it will not improve conditions for you.
And have you considered cycling, you could cycle from one side of Hereford to the other in the 5 mins that your sat waiting to add to thr traffic jam
I hear today that work has started on concreting the Serpent over!!! How can this be happening??? What about English Heritage's review regarding scheduling this ancient monument? I suppose this is simply another step in the chain of destruction which includes ignoring a public enquiry and the councils own development plan. Who cares about the green-belt: LETS MAKE SOME MONEY... Nauseating...:-(
I am intrigued by an alignment on the map between Aconbury , Dinedor Camp , The Rotherwas Ribbon , Rotherwas Chapel , The Franchise Stone , Lugwardine Church and Withington Church ( Via Whitestone) Alfred Watkins , author of The Old Staight Track , based on his observations initially in his home county of Herefordshire , would surely have remarked on a ley line,
Views on ley lines vary from snorts of derision to blind faith and I am not sure where mine fit in this spectrum . Nevertheless this could add a dimension to views that have been expressed that the Ribbon extends further along this line and may be of ritual or religious significance . All the more reason for preserving such an intriguing feature and protecting this "Dreamline" from wanton destruction
I am a South African Living in Hereford. In the short time that I've lived here, I've enjoyed the sights of the Older Hereford. The historic Cathedral that holds the Mappa Mundi, the Black and White House and all the lovely old buildings in and around the city. I have also made an effort to show any visitors all these 'ancient' sights. The oldest building in SA is the Castle in Table Bay built in 1666. So it is exciting for us to see such old places.
I think the Herefordshire Council's decision to build a road over such an important historic find is a disgrace. It is important for future generations. I'd love to take my children there one day when they are old enough to understand and appreciate The Rotherwas Ribbon's historic value. Instead if the council are left to go ahead with their plans our only memory will be the few pictures taken so far. Motorists passing by or over will point vaguely into the distance and say 'Yes, that is the site that almost made Hereford as famous as Stonehenge'
I have compiled a few links for those of you who are interested in the People, Archaeology, beliefs etc.
The headings are a rough guide to the content of the link, but many are more comprehensive than the heading I have given. There is much more out there, and I would be grateful for any links of interest. jimhamey@hotmail.com
The People, who are they?.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/peoples_01.shtml
http://www.le.ac.uk/ar/stj/alternative.htm
http://www.carluvers.com/cars/British_Iron_Age
Burnt mounds
http://www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/ulas/birstall.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnt_mound
http://www.heneb.co.uk/llandegaiweblog/llandygaiintro.html
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=14127&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=11477
Orkney http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/meurbronzeage.htm
Yorkshire http://www.outofoblivion.org.uk/record.asp?id=271
Bronze Age settlements http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session3/51/settlements.htm
http://www.templeresearch.eclipse.co.uk/bronze/intro.htm
http://assets.cambridge.org/052136/4779/sample/0521364779WSC00.pdf
http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/hist_periods/bronze_age.htm
The destruction of sites and evidence of occupation outside hill forts
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba35/ba35news.html
http://www.hereford.uk.com/history/ironage.asp
Bronze Age tracks
http://www3.shropshire-cc.gov.uk/roots/packages/tra/tra_y02.htm
http://www.eaareports.demon.co.uk/Agenda%20Neo-Bronze%20Age.pdf
http://www.somerset.gov.uk/media/00B/12/SWARF_LBA.pdf
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get/assets/docs/Bucks_Iron_Age.pdf
http://www.shes.rdg.ac.uk/SHESresearch/Archaeology/Science/Severn.htm
http://www.eaareports.demon.co.uk/Agenda%20Iron%20Age.pdf
Metal working
http://www.templeresearch.eclipse.co.uk/bronze/intro.htm
Stuff
http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/trlout_gfx_en/TRA15264.html
http://www.arch-
Beliefs
http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/articles/bates.htm
http://www.resurgence.org/2006/chopra234.htm
http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/issues/moore218.htm
http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/issues/moore219.htm
http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/issues/moore217.htm
Alfred Watkins eminent Herefordian
http://www.britannia.com/wonder/leylines.html
http://www.herefordwebpages.co.uk/watkins.shtml
Questions are being asked about the materials used. It has been suggested that the ribbon may be a natural feature and the stones frost shattered rather than fire shattered since they are not blackened by heat My feeling to this was that since the adjacent gravels are likely to be the source , and have been cryoturbated in the last glaciation, they display no such effects. The high proporton of intact material suggest that this is not a realistic argument. However it is important to consider such matters as being entirely valid. Other experts are being asked to consider such associated geological matters.
It has been suggested thet the site is natural and the stones are frost shattered not heat cracked as they are not burnt. In view of the likely soure being the gravels a few hundred metres away this seems unlikely since these are cryoturbated and largely the pebbles are intact in a climate considerably colder. Other geology experts are answering the question which is an entirely valid one to put forward. RG
At the ill fated Cabinet meeting when the Hereford 8 were arrested, Cllr French promised outside the meeting that there would be a full enquiry into how the discovery of the Ribbon was handled.
Has the enquiry been set in motion or has it all gone quiet?
WHO writes all the annonymous comments? Are they authentic?
One person queried the map image. Archaeologists wrote that they were aware of the sattelite images late last year when they were checked. The images did not reveal anything which could be interpreted as significant or obvious regarding the burnt stone feature uncovered.---
Some Councillors may regard the monument as 'a heap of stones.' They may be assured that it is much more than that. As yet the true extent of the monument is not definately known.
Those who suggest that the sight was being 'washed away' clearly have little understanding of the process of erosion of such sites...but the actual damage sustained .. has been quite limited,and the silt washed down the hillside has done no harm.
Change is challenging, and anything 'new' turning up on the doorstep forces us to rethink out of our accustomed patterns. It's also exciting and opens up fresh opportunities,and possibilities previously unthought of here. I see this latest find in Herefordshire like a "big brother" to the much prized Mappa Mundi, safe inside Hereford Cathedral. Only this baby seems to inhabit a site inconvenient to some involved in planning. I have a strong sense that with more lateral and creative thinking, a solution can be reached that maximizes on all the obvious advantages that a discovery such as this offers. Let's see Hereford rise to the occasion!
Is there nothing any-one can do to stop this vandalism.
This is a unique chance to preserve and display for all to see an unusual part of our history.
Herefordshire council should be ashamed of itself.
Don't give me the rubbish about progress, more jobs and a better economy because the road is there.
Who will benefit from the road.
Lets guess. Not the locals.
And what about all those marvalous jobs.
Will they be well paid decent jobs for locals or the usual badly paid ones where you work all hours for next to nothing.
These jobs of course will mean more people so have they plans for a decent public transport service.
But then wont that increase traffic on a road thats supposed to decrease traffic.
This road is being built for profit not for the benefit of local people.
Why English Heritage did not schedule it I don't know. There seems to be a lot of corruption in high places.
Those in charge seem determined to tread all over us and treat us with contempt.
So much for a democratic society.
Shame on you Herefordshire council.
You are nothing but greedy vandals. You obviously dont seem to care about the what the ordinary people think. You even arrest them for protesting peacefully.
A ancient monument buried under concrete. Tragic.
I don't understand how and why modern man must be so destructive. We seem to underestimate the value of the past and continue to ruin it with our politics and greed.
Thanks...
Canan eoy
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